Challenging Later Abortion Stigma
An interview with Asha Dahya, director of Someone You Know
Hi readers! I’m Tamar Eisen, and I provide research assistance for Jill for her newsletter. I had the opportunity to interview Asha Dahya, a filmmaker and director of Someone You Know, a newly released documentary about later abortion.
Asha, a passionate advocate for gender equality and reproductive freedom, is the founder and editor in chief of GirlTalkHQ.Com, an intersectional feminist online magazine promoting women’s voices and stories. In 2020, Asha released a book based off of a GirlTalkHQ series, Today’s Wonder Women: Everyday Superheroes Who Are Changing The World. Asha also hosts a podcast series for RePROFilm.org. You can see more of her work at www.AshaDahya.com and follow her on Instagram and X @ashadahya.
Read on for an inspiring interview about her new documentary and her work to challenge later abortion stigma.
Tell us about what you do and why. Why did you decide to create this new documentary, Someone You Know, on the issue of later abortion?
I am a filmmaker, storyteller, producer, and mother of two, passionate about social impact messages through media and film. I started working on Someone You Know in 2020, initially hoping to create an impact video to release before the presidential election that year. Unfortunately, due to budget setbacks, having a newborn at the time, and with the ongoing pandemic, I had to set the film aside and pick it up again in 2021 with a renewed focus. I felt it was important to focus on later abortion because it is a very misunderstood aspect of abortion care in terms of how it is talked about and represented in our culture and media. There are very few films and documentaries about later abortion, the most prominent feature doc being After Tiller, which I highly recommend people watch. Despite my initial disappointment over not being able to release the film in 2020, it feels even more relevant four years later in this election year.
Although the stories featured in Someone You Know took place before Roe v. Wade was overturned, I really wanted to showcase how inaccessible later abortion has been for quite some time, and how it is only going to get worse in a post-Roe America, unless we collectively take a stand to protect access. This pushback begins with understanding on a personal level why abortion access throughout all stages of pregnancy must be accessible, and why abortion is needed at later stages.
Why is later abortion so stigmatized and misunderstood? Is this the result of anti-abortion messaging or does the pro-choice movement play a role as well?
The anti choice movement has sadly been very successful in dominating the cultural conversation around later abortion, filling the space with a lot of misinformation and propaganda. This begins with the phrase “late term abortion,” which is not a medically accurate phrase. When you are “late term” that means you are at 40 weeks in your pregnancy, and you are now thinking about induction or a C-section. “Late term” has nothing to do with abortion.
The second most pervasive way later abortion is misunderstood is because of the lack of information about why it is needed, coupled with anti choice political candidates and politicians making harmful, inflammatory, and flagrantly false statements about later abortion, that then get amplified by the media. Think of Donald Trump's comments about doctors ripping babies out of the womb at nine months.
This problem has become exacerbated by the fact that not enough pro choice folks are willing to speak out about later abortion, often internalizing or believing the messages shared by the anti-choice movement. I have heard many well meaning pro choice folks make statements such as “I’m pro choice, except in the 7th or 8th month, that’s taking it too far…”. What we need to do is challenge our own internal stigma toward later abortion, become more acquainted with the facts about later abortion, and vocally push back because pro choice people are the majority in this country. My film is designed to be a tool to help pro choice audiences in this mission.
Someone You Know tells the story of three women who sought abortions in their second or third trimesters. Why did you choose to center personal storytelling as the vehicle to better understanding later abortion? What is the power of abortion storytelling that research and policy reports can't capture?
I have always been a storyteller at heart, and even when it comes to big topics, I find I connect to the heart of the issue when I hear personal stories. In my former life, as an anti choice Christian conservative, it was very easy to identify with the label “pro life” because all we heard from the pulpit were statements in the abstract (trigger warning here) “abortion is murder” or “abortion is a sin.” There was never a space to understand that these are real people making complex and nuanced decisions about their lives, many of whom actually sat in those pulpits every week. It wasn’t until after I left the church, and went on my own educational journey to learn more about abortion, that I started to read personal stories, and see so much of the details that made it less and less of a black and white issue.
For this documentary, although the data is important, I only wanted to include it where it was relevant to the context of each woman’s story. When you look at the political landscape, no matter how many facts or statistics you use, they never seem to be able to break through the noise that clickbait phrases or viral statements make. I didn’t want to compete with any of that. So by taking out the pressure of making it a hard-hitting journalistic piece or one that included a lot of news footage, I could spend my time giving each woman’s voice and story the attention it deserves.
Later abortion patients often stay silent with their experiences due to harassment, which happens in large part due to the misinformation that gets spread about the procedure. By bravely choosing to use their real names and faces on camera, I knew that centering abortion storytelling was a much more powerful way of sharing valuable information and education. It was also my way of reframing the idea of what an “expert” is, which is something I learned from WeTestify founder Renee Bracey Sherman, who is featured in the film and consulted with me a lot from the beginning of production. She taught me that abortion storytellers ARE the experts. How can anyone claim to know what is right for someone else? By positioning each of these storytellers as experts in their own right, it was my subtle way of pushing back on the notion that women are unreliable narrators in their own stories who need others to tell us what to do or control our lives.
So much has obviously changed with the overturning of Roe v. Wade, and many states now fully ban abortion or make it extremely challenging to access, even in the first trimester. How do you get people to also care about and advocate for later abortion care when many now don't have access to care early in pregnancy? Are there abortion laws or policies that can be advocated for that would work better for everyone?
This is a great question. For me, I look at abortion as an issue that should have no restrictions or limitations. Buying into the idea of time-based restrictions is a dichotomy that has been perpetuated by the anti choice movement. That there are “good” and “bad” abortions, and typically the later abortions have been considered “bad” because of the misinformation about who gets them and why. What I learned through the making of this film is that if you are pro choice, that means advocating for abortion without caveats.
The onslaught of anti choice laws can be confusing and overwhelming, and change constantly. So I recommend first becoming familiar with who needs a later abortion, as opposed to the time limit. And a great resource to learn more about this is whonotwhen.com. The main reasons people need an abortion later is 1) because they find out information they could not have known earlier in their pregnancy, 2) later discovery of a pregnancy (common among young people, people on birth control, people with chronic pain, and people with irregular periods); and 3) people being pushed later into pregnancy due to the increasing number of barriers to accessing an abortion earlier. Once this information becomes more common knowledge, I think it will enable more of us to push back against laws that only prioritize certain types of abortion access.
It’s also important to look at how later abortion bans or time restrictions can lead to a life or death situation, depending on your status. Most people are familiar with the story of Kate Cox, who despite being banned from getting an emergency abortion procedure later in her pregnancy, was able to eventually travel out of Texas to get the care she needed in another state. But perhaps more people should know about the story of Yeniifer Alvarez Estrada-Glick, a Latina woman also from Texas who experienced medical complications and health issues in her pregnancy. Due to her lack of healthcare access, the financial means to travel, and the burden of a state not properly informing her of the choice to terminate which would’ve saved her life, she tragically died in what medical experts are saying was a preventable death.
We already know from the data that the majority of people get abortion care early in their pregnancy, and that a medication abortion is the most common form of abortion care. But people will always need abortions later in pregnancy and I want more people to know what is at stake when we don’t advocate for all types of abortion access.
Even for some pro-choice people, later abortion is only discussed or seen as necessary in cases of medical emergencies or fetal abnormalities. What can we do to move beyond this narrative of a "good" later abortion and ensure all care is supported?
As Mindy Swank in my film outlines, after her harrowing experience being denied an abortion despite fetal demise, due to being caught up in the Catholic hospital system, “there is no way a law can fully account for all the things that could go wrong in a pregnancy, I loved my baby more than anybody else, no one else felt him, but I wasn’t allowed to make the best decisions for him.”
Additionally, Valerie Peterson who was also forced to travel out of Texas to get a later abortion despite receiving a diagnosis that her fetus was incompatible with life (this is before SB8 and before Roe was overturned), “I was angry because the doctor that I had been with all this time couldn’t perform the procedure for me, because of some law that someone who has never had experience with what I had to go through, wrote.”
We cannot just be advocating for the medical necessities, when we now know that anti abortion laws and barriers to access are increasingly responsible for pushing people later into pregnancy. As the pro choice majority in America, we have an opportunity and a responsibility to push back and be the loudest voice in the room for once. The cultural pushback can only be effective when we take the time to challenge and investigate the internal abortion stigma we hold. What about later abortion makes us uncomfortable? What are we believing that makes us buy into the ugly rhetoric that gets weaponized by conservative politicians and leaders? What will it take for us to come around to the idea that every person deserves the freedom, dignity, and respect to make their own decisions about their pregnancy, regardless of our opinions or beliefs? Because as the title of my film suggests, this is not some abstract issue that happens to “other people.” Later abortions happen to people we know and love, and we shouldn’t wait until it happens to us personally to advocate for something that is important and necessary.
What can we do to collectively challenge stigma and misinformation around later abortion? Do you feel optimistic that minds can be changed?
I do feel optimistic, especially when I see people like the abortion storytellers in my film sharing their experiences in a number of public ways. Valerie has testified in congressional hearings about her later abortion. Sharon, an immigrant and former student from Honduras, joined WeTestify as a storyteller because she wants others in similar situations like hers to know they are not alone. Mindy, despite dealing with PTSD from her experience, has shared her detailed story not only with me, but also in podcast interviews and with the ACLU for a special campaign about the danger of Catholic healthcare and how they deny a number of reproductive services.
Additionally, I know hearts and minds can be changed, because mine did. I was able to go on my own journey of becoming informed, reading the stories, following good journalists and writers who report on abortion, and understanding how freeing it can be to let go of your own stigma to learn something new. My advice is to keep an open mind, and be willing to listen to the stories. It can feel very threatening to have your entire worldview or a strong belief challenged by an outside force or another person. But if we are willing to listen to the conversations that are being had, without compromising on the fundamental belief that bodily autonomy belongs to everyone, I think that is already a bold step forward to becoming a great advocate.
What can readers of this newsletter do to learn more about later abortion and advocate for change?
You can visit the film’s website for more information about the people featured in my film, how it was made, and my social impact goals - www.someoneyouknowdoc.com. On the site, you will also find a number of great resources focused on later abortion - articles, podcast episodes, organizations to support, and some data sources.
On a micro level, my encouragement is to have conversations about later abortion with the people you love and those you are regularly in community with. Change begins on the local level and by having more personal interactions that allow for nuance and depth, there is a great opportunity to see change happen. Even by planting one seed of thought for someone to think about, whether it’s challenging the use of the phrase “late term abortion” or being equipped with the education about why people commonly need later abortions, it can have a ripple effect.
Do you have any other upcoming projects you are excited about?
I am currently in development on an audio series looking at the extraordinary activism of the Green Wave Movement in Latin America. Working with Plan C filmmaker, Jess Jacobs, “Crossing the Line” podcast producer, Dominica Ruelas, and reprofilm.org founder, Lela Meadow-Conner, we are currently seeking funding for this series which we have designed as a way to elevate the activism and voices of women in the Global South, and showcase a blueprint for abortion rights and reproductive freedom in the U.S. in the lead up to the November election.
Anything else you want to share?
If you are interested in screening Someone You Know at your organization, school, place of worship, work, or anywhere else, please reach out at www.someoneyouknowdoc.com and I would love to talk with you.
On the website you will also find a list of resources and more information about later abortion, as well as the people featured in the film and the folks who helped me bring this film to fruition. You can follow me on X and Instagram @ashadahya, or see more of my media work at www.ashadahya.com.
As always, thanks for reading!
Tamar + Jill